2012 may have been the year predicted by the Mayans to be the end of the world, and the House of Money (Casa de Moneda), a.k.a. the Mexican Mint, seems to be treating it as such. First, they shocked collectors by refusing to offer the fractional libertad proof coins that had been minted since 1992. They offered only the 1 ounce proof coin and only the BU fractionals. Then, by all accounts, the 2012 1 ounce proof libertad sold out in hours, selling for a high premium before it was ever received by USA collectors.
As we mentioned in this blog before- with the discontinuation of the fractionals- perhaps they were going to offer something later on in the year as a ‘surprise’ set? It was 1982 that the first 1 ounce silver libertad went on sale, and 1992 that the first libertad fractional arrived. Would there be a 30th anniversary of libertad or 20th anniversary of fractionals set?
We have our answer! On July 8th the Banco de Mexico released the “surprise” 30th Anniversary Libertad Set. Featuring a mintage of just 1500, with a wooden box, COA, and perhaps most noteworthy, a gold-plated bronze statue figurine fashioned after the Winged Goddess of Victory. The statute was first seen last year in the difficult to find 30th anniversary gold proof set- limited to just 500 (and priced in the 4-5k range).
What does this mean? Well, for one, these sets are going to be tough to find. Although 1500 were produced, various reports list the numbers as being between 700-900 offered for sale in Mexico, and between 600-800 offered to European dealers. This leaves the USA collectors with the task of having to buy through distributors connected to Mexico or Europe.
The two-coin set contains the 1/2 ounce libertad BU and the 1 ounce proof- neither of which is unique to the set. However, unlike the US Mint releases, libertad collectors have shown a willingness to pay a substantial premium for set offerings that remain in the wood boxes with the COA’s. There is also the matter of the beautiful gold statuette, which is not available anywhere else except the very expensive gold proof set from last year.
Finally, there is a “cool factor” with this set- it just looks really beautiful with the gold figure. In a year where they stopped producing the fractional proofs (and the 2 and 5 ounce proofs), this set stands alongside the US Mint’s SF two coin set as one of the most intriguing two-coin sets of the year.
Now, will they offer another set commemorating the fractionals? It’s not likely, as they haven’t done multiple set offerings in the past. Those who think they might, however, would point to the 2011 proof gold sets, which were released without the figurines in a slightly higher mintage. So, if they follow course it would suggest that if they did release another set, it would only be a non-figure set. And, since both coins are available separately, a large premium could lead to dealers selling the sets with a single proof and half ounce BU coin themselves (and even throwing in a spare box) and billing it as the 30th anniversary set. This is often done with the other libertad sets (particularly the 2011 proof set), since the wooden box with COA proof sets of the last few years have been limited to 1000. A search on eBay on completed listings reveals that buyers will pay much more for the in-the-box-with-the-coa version- sometimes close to double. The gold goddess statuette will likely add even more to the premium.
In an exciting year with more questions than answers, it seems as if the Mexico Mint is taking the approach (either on purpose or not) of keeping collectors in the dark- which could lead to an offering flying under the radar and then becoming very popular later on. Assuming, of course, that the Mayans were wrong about 2012.
Sooo….this means that the 2011 fractional proof sets will BE VERY COLLECTIBLE?! ….AWSOME!!
Terrific post and nice product. Mine arrived today. Thanks, Gabriel.
@ Gabriel
Thank you for the article. Where can we purchase this set besides the online auction site?
Ikaika,
Try Panda America, that’s where I got mine.
@ Louis
Thank you for the info. Will do.
Gabriel
Ordered my set last Friday evening and it arrived today, looks great. Your previous article wetted my interest in them and after your article again today I am sure they will be harder to find. Thanks for another great article!!
FYI- world collectors- Silvertowne has a sale going on and I managed to get my first HR Kangaroo, the 2011 coin, for $90 delivered, which is the best price I have seen. I like last year’s design more than the new one. Ok, back to Libertads!
Louis
Is the CoA that came with your set numbered? I also received my set from Panda America but the CoA was not numbered. It is a beautiful set, though.
I just spoke to Panda America and they told me that they got in contact with Casa de Moneda de Mexico and confirmed that none of the sets were numbered. If anyone gets a set that is numbered, please let us know and we can then possibly take it up with Panda America. Casa de Moneda de Mexico did confirm the mintage of 1,500 for the set.
I cannot find a cheaper price than $179.00 from Panda – not even on the auction sites. They received 200 sets and, apparently, these are flying off the shelves at a fast pace.
Schalk
Received 2 sets today, both COA’s are numbered!!
Dan
From where did you order?
Panda America
Thanks guys! I can confirm that my set arrived from Panda America yesterday and was not numbered either- the COA has a blank spot where the number goes.
my sets are still at regional sorting center. if there is no # on the CoA, how we know the mintage is 1500? the # should be computer printed or handwritten?
Hi Guys – Will from Panda America here. If you purchased your set from us & it came without a number on the COA, please send the blank one back to us, and we will send you a certificate with a number on it. Thanks, and YES – the sets are selling GREAT.
Our first variety? Numbered and non-numbered. I wonder if they only marked the ones earmarked for Europe/Mexico and not vice-versa. If people want to share the number, roughly that they get, it would be interesting.
G
You got me paranoid, so I went back and rechecked. They are printed in a 4 number format i.e. 1234. They appear to be generated mechanically with the fourth number being lighter in print and slightly high in strike. Both mine are in the low 300′s.
Well, mine came from Panda and is in good condition. It’s a really nice set and box, and the figurine is awesome, but the COA is unnumbered. The dealer G knows (Don Bailey) also has some for a few dollars less than Panda. I am in a rush now, but later I will ask the contact there if he wants to post something with ordering info. By the way, the half ounce coin appears to be better quality than my other examples but I will have to check more closely.
Great Post! I was wondering about the fractionals. Thanks for the info!
i wonder how this happened?! why sets from same seller got numbered/not-numbered? seller numbers the coins themselves? perthmint has number on both CoA and the outer box.
Also- I have had it confirmed from Pat at Don Bailey this afternoon that there were 700 sets sold in Mexico and 800 in Europe. Also, I called Panda America and they said they had an error and half of their shipment from Mexico didn’t have the number and if you send them the blank COA they will send one of the printed ones back. They said they have received a lot of complaints. Also, if you look at the photograph of the set here, and in other photographs (on ebay)- it looks like the COA has been usually blank. This is a first.
they have more CoA than coin sets?
Looks like a lot of sets maybe 0001!
the ones on ebay are blank, thats understandable, because they all use stock picture maybe from mint before the # are printed.
i checked Don’s website, there is no link at all, right? u have to call to order?
not sure how to keep the # unique!
Dan, u dont have a chance to be #0001 since u have # already, others will.
Maybe the unnumbered certificate will become a rarity! I now may have second thoughts on sending it back for a numbered one…
Story of my life Samuel
Schalk, u may want to be careful. “…send them the blank COA they will send one of the printed ones back…”, i dont know how it works, but it sounds to me like there are EXTRA CoAs out there.
Just picked one up as well — looks like an interesting item
I just asked Pat at Don Bailey’s to post ordering info. I forgot to ask if his are numbered. Someone may want to ask. I am not sure if I want to send my blank COA back, but I probably will.
William @ Panda America
Will, I have already sent my unnumbered certificate back for replacement, but, a lot of questions are now popping up here on the blog and some of them not unwarranted:
Are you taking the numbered certificates out of the sets you have to send back to us?
I assume that you will send the unnumbered certificates back to Casa de Moneda de Mexico for numbering, and, even if you do, how do they know which numbers they have already printed and which ones they did not?
Will the end result be duplicate numbers?
most likely, a typewriter will do the job.
Don Bailey sold out first day.
G
Do you know if anyone else got numbers either from panda or Bailey?
Just got word from Pat at Don Bailey, and he said he talked to the Mexican Bank and they said that for the official version, the printer did not apply cert numbers, and released them with numbers supplied to dealers to ” hand write” in the certs.
I would take that to mean that there were 1500 certificates released, and the Bank for whatever reason didn’t want to print or write the numbers in. So, there you have it from the source.
How many sets did Don Bailey sell?
One other question for G or anyone else-
Any idea yet how many 2012 proof coins were made? There seems to be a lot of mystery about that too.
Even the 2011 numbers for the proof set, etc. are not available from any official or reliable sources that I know of.
Thanks, G. If the Panda guy is just going to hand write in a number, and the Mint sent them out blank, then maybe it is better to leave it blank. Maybe the world is ending this year!!!!!!!!!
So if our COA is not numbered we can just “hand write” a number?
How is Panda America replacing COA’s without numbers? Do they have extra COA’s…are they sending them back?
I should receive my set from Panda America tomorrow or Monday, and if it isn’t numbered, I’m not sure what I want/should do.
For those that have received there set….does the COA indicate the Maxinum mintage of 1500?
I’ve got the 2010 Libertad Proof set with wood box & COA and on one side it has the printed number (0001-1000) and on the other side underneath the coins specs it says “Limited Mintage 1000 SETS”
Steve, no numbers or indication of mintage on the COA. Just info. on the coins and figurine and says it is for the 30th anniv. I am going to leave mine as is since that is how the Mint made them. Maybe all these oddities are the Mexican Mint’s way to drum up interest.
Great article gabe.
Any idea on the half oz. Coins
Number mintage finish?
@ Louis
Thanks for the info on Panda America. Got a set today. Although, we are paying a hefty premium for this set based on silver content. I like the proof libertads and been picking up the rare ones in the past 10 years. Hopefully we will be rewarded one day, but the beauty is there
Will, (Panda America) any more useful info you can provide regarding the COA’s? What is the process if we send COA without a number back to you? Do you have some you can send right back? How long will it take to get a replacement? Is there the possibility that we may never get an authentite COA back in return? Would we be better off just keeping our blank COA?
Lastly, why did this go unnoticed to begin with…while Mexico is mainly to blame, Panda America should of noticed this and done something about it..IMO
Ikaika- I think you and your heirs will like the set. I am thinking of just holding on to the COA with no number. It is still the right COA for the product, though I don’t understand why they forgot to put numbers or even state the mintage. The guy I spoke to at Panda said they have plenty more COA’s, which does seem weird. And he sounded mighty busy I guess fielding all the COA calls!
By the way, does anyone out there have a 2011 Libertad proof set with a COA? The Panda guy said they did not issue them with certificates, but I am curious.
i dont understand with only “1500″ sets, there is still this kind of mistake. we need to understand when panda guy said “mail in the blank one and replace with a numbered one.” what does it mean? they just handwrite a number on it or what? every dealer knows their number range, for example 200-250?
i probably will keep them as is if i get a blank one. this joke will last for many years and everyone will know it, so nobody will question the blank CoA.
i also worry abt there r maybe plenty of CoA out there.
finally, seems both usmint and mexico mint try to ruin our weekend.
Samuel, the blank COA and the box and sleeve all state clearly 30th anniv. set, so maybe numbers don’t matter. I don’t know. But these sets should still have some value and look pretty nice. Have a good weekend!! Don’t let those mint people get you down. I had a horrible experience tonight with transportation where I live, but life goes on……..
just got the sets, with numbers.
So what are those who got COA’s w/o numbers planning to do? Send them back for a new one, or keep the one w/o numbers?
I also received my 30th Annv set today and the COA had a printed number on it…in the 300′s.
Lewis, if mine did not have a numbered COA I decided that I would keep that way….unless more info became available as to how a replacement COA would be handled. As you previously said, the wood box & COA both clearly indicated this is the 30th Anniversary set. As far as replacements go, I’m unclear about how that process works…all that talk about “hand-written” numbers did not make any since to me.
I was surprised at the size the the wood box. It is only 3/4 on an inch less wide than the 5 coins sets and is 1 1/2 inches taller in height…so it actually has more square inches in size than the 5 coin sets.
OT, yesterday I received my Funnel Web Spider (Deadly & Dangerous series) from Downies…nice coin and the wood box is great…I wish the DoL series had that kind of packaging. I currently have one wood box display holding the 2 issued DoL coin along with the 3 coin set from New Zealand…WW2 Nose Art.
Along those lines, I have several of the 2011 Silver Eagle 25th Anniversary OGP sets and they are great for displaying all these foreign coins.
Lastly, Lewis, would are you considering doing with your COA?
Re:Great White Shark coin…as I mentioned previously, the actual coin will have 4 bite marks instead of the 7 you see in all the current pics…like on NZM’s website.
Here is a link to the old pic with seven bite-marks.
http://www.newzealandmint.com/coins/shop-online/2012-great-white-shark-1oz-silver-coin-set
Not that I’m anyone special, but I have developed a good two-way communication with the New Zealand Mint. This is what my contact said:
“I wouldn’t normally send out the attached image out as this is used for production purposes but thought you’d appreciate seeing the now layout of the Reverse design of the Shark for the White Shark program.
Once production have a sample for me to approve I’ll flick you a photo of the first struck coin prior to the coloring process.”
I trust that he didn’t intend for me to share that image…but I can tell you that while the bite marks are reduced from 7 to 4, each of the 4 remaining bite marks are about twice the size of the original 7.
One last think I’ve inquired about (and maybe some of you already have info on this) was to confirm whether or not the bite marks actually go through the entire coin…so you can see right through it…I’m assuming it does, but really want to here that from NZM.
Steve,
Thanks for the info. I am having a hard time deciding, but like you I am skeptical of the value of a hand-written number on a COA, assuming that what G said was correct. Not that I question G, but you never know as things get passed down the line who said exactly what to whom.
The guy I spoke to said they had plenty of COA’s and would send a new one right out. He did not say anything about handwriting it, so I will probably call on Monday and double check. I want to ask them about something else anyway.
Nice going with the NZM. Sounds like you are pretty special! Enjoy your shark. It’s too scary for me!
I agree on the box. With all that space they could have also included the 1/10th and 1/4 ounce coins. Not to mention with the price, they could have included them too. I think there are enough serious Libertad collectors to keep these babies at $250 or more retail and eventually higher.
First time posting here — been enjoy everyone’s comments.
I received my two sets of the 30th Anniversary Silver Libertad sets. Both COA’s were numbered, in the 300′s. The numbers are not hand-written but stamped.
Th whole set looks elegant though the box is too large for the coins and the figurine. They are not tightly fitted in their recesses and the coins will come loose in the box. There is a piece of foam padding inside the box to prevent this. But then the box can not close properly and required a rubber band to hold the lid down.
But, I am concerned about the wooden box, the foam padding and the rubber band. Aren’t they “toxic” to the silver coins and in the long term, it may cause tarnish? I plan to throw away the foam padding and the rubber band, and keep a 3M anti-tarnish strip in the box.
Am I too paranoid about this?
@Steve – what is the mintage of the Great White Shark coin? I see two numbers — 4,000 and 5,000. Which one is it?
Silverback,
If you are really concerned, I’d say store the coins separately in an inert environment like a safe with some silica gel inside. I think you might also be okay just storing the whole thing in such a place. It is annoying how the box does not fit tightly, but since the rubber band is on the outside I doubt that would matter. And anyway it is PVC plastic that is the big problem, and I am not sure, but I don’t think the foam or band are made of PVC.
Was you set from Panda?
the number on the CoA looks like is printed with the rubber stamp.
Yes, Steve, my sets are from Panda.
I think your idea of storing the coins separately is excellent. That is actually how I store my US Mint coins. The packagings are becoming a bigger headache finding storage places for them.
i also have the problem of storing the silver coins, usually they have big boxes. my current solution is buying big plastic bins from Target. i m just not sure if they contain PVC or not.
Hi guys – Will from Panda America. Wow, so much interest for this product. It just proves that if the mints come out with a high quality product with a low mintage, the demand will be there. I know Panda America is not the only distributor for this Anniversary set but so far we have been selling very strongly, and I know a few other distributors that are already sold out. Regarding the mintage: we have contacted the Banco de Mexico & Casa de Moneda to have them send us a signed letter stating the mintage is indeed 1,500. I was startled as well to not see it on the certificate as well. I will post the letter on our website under the product picture section, when I get it.
William @ Panda America
Will, have you received a set of numbers for those certificates that were not numbered from the Mint and are you applying them yourself? I feel that it is ok for you to do so, provided that Casa de Moneda de Mexico gave you a series of numbers specifically applicable for your allocation (seems to be in the 0300′s). Please indicate whether this is the case as it is clear from Don Bailey that the Mint did not apply certificate numbers, and released them with numbers supplied to dealers to ” hand write” in the certs.
Will, i would suggest you give the guys here a coupon code, since we bought so many.
As for the blank certs that weren’t numbered – In the comments above “Steve” mentions that “why did this go unnoticed to begin with…while Mexico is mainly to blame, Panda America should of noticed this and done something about it..IMO”……… – it is not our responsibility to ensure they are numbered: we distribute & sell the coins, we don’t make them or mint them, and we don’t print off the certs – it’s all made in Mexico under their supervision. We sell what they make and give us as an official distributor, just as any distributor of foreign coins does. A coin company in America, no matter how big, does not simply tell a reputable government mint in another country what to do. As a collector myself I like having the certs numbered so I can relate to you guys wanting the cert numbered. Panda America was assigned a specific sequence of numbers from Mexico, and as I said before, if you got a cert that isn’t numbered and you bought from PA, please send it back to PA with your invoice # and we will get you a cert that is numbered with the specific numbers that we were given from Banco de Mexico. It seems like most of our sets have been sold to former customers, but we also have some new customers buying these sets – perhaps from this blog – for those of you here who bought your sets from us – THANK YOU FOR YOUR BUSINESS!!
@ William – I have bought from PA previously, but came back to you for this Anniversary Set specifically because of the blog. I’ll also be checking back w/ PA in 2-3 weeks as the 2012 ANA Panda Medals become available. Well, at least I remain hopeful that you will have some of the 1 oz and 5 oz medals available for those unable to get to Philly.
Thanks for chiming in on this blog, and for demonstrating a genuine concern for all of your PA customers’. I, for one, really appreciate your “world class” service.
William
Thank you for giving us clarity on the COA situation and trying to keep your customers happy
Will
I was one of your new customers for this offering. It was Gabriel’s original article a while back that had gotten me intrested in Libertads. The 2 sets that I ordered arrived in great shape and a timely manner. Mine just happened to be numbered so I lucked out. Just wanted to say that I am impressed with the way you seem to be responding to your customers. There are a few other dealers out there like yourself that are a pleasure to do business with, and a few others that should learn from you guys. Thanks again from a new customer who will be a return customer.
William, I too am a first time customer and I also appreciate you visiting this blog and providing customer service.
I WILL be a repeat customer!!
I don’t mean be beat a dead horse, but when some rather simple qustions have not been answered…??…I’m going to ask.
You still have not directly answered questions regarding why some of the P.A. sets had numbered COA’s and some did not.
You responded saying ” it is not our responsibility to ensure they are numbered: we distribute & sell the coins, we don’t make them or mint them, and we don’t print off the certs – it’s all made in Mexico under their supervision. We sell what they make and give us as an official distributor, just as any distributor of foreign coins does. A coin company in America, no matter how big, does not simply tell a reputable government mint in another country what to do.”
I understand you saying you are not responsible for non-numbered COA’s as you just sell what is passed on to you by what is made in Mexico.
So my questions are:
1. Did all the COA’s you received from Mexico come without a number?
2. Did some of the COA’s you received from Mexico have numbers and others did not?
3. If all the COA’s PA received were blank, were you provided a range
of numbers for those COA’s to stamp a number on?
4. What happens when someone sends in a COA without a number and
you send one back with a number? Where does the numbered COA come from?
Again, IMO, you skirted the issue of COA’s with/without a number and basically said it is not your responsibility. That may very well be true…but only you have all the details regarding the numbered/non-numbered COA’s and you have been reluctant to share that info with us..to say that “hey, we only ship out what is sent is us” is ok, but when you also say, “however” we
can correct it, how does that happen?
However, regarding the assumed mintage limit of 1500, you did not have a problem requesting a letter from the Mexican Mint verifying that…and you indicated you would post that on your product page. So for you to say that you don’t question another countries Mint is inaccurate.
So…as a distributor, I don’t see the difference in you ascertaining the 1500 mintage limit vs asking them about the numbered COA’s
William, again, I appreciate you customer service and wish more companies were as involved with their clients. But I’m not going to give you a free pass when you have not totally explained the COA situation with some clarity.
Steve
I think that you are reading too much into this. It is possible that PA’s early sets were sold by them without them realizing that the certificates were unnumbered. Will already told us that they received an official range of numbers for their allocation to apply to the certificates. Even Don Bailey confirms that the dealers were asked to assign numbers to the sets: “write them in”. Don Bailey also confirmed that NONE of the sets were numbered by the mint.
If I were the dealer, I would probably also start selling without studying anything else, such as a request to apply numbers – which is highly unusual for the mint to request from the dealer in the first place.
They can obviously correct the omission by requesting that you send the certificate back to them so that they can number them according to the range that they were allocated and so exchange one for one certificates – no duplicates. They are also kind enough to stamp the number on the certificate. How many dealers do you think are going to number these sets at all?
PA may have only realized this a short while ago – and their first batch was sold without numbers. William only became aware of the problem on Friday last week when I called him and asked him about the numbers. They immediately acted on this and he even posted on this blog after I told him about it’s existence. It is now only Monday – a day after he posted the first time (weekend in between).
William also told us that he was surprised to find that the total mintage was not specified on the COA. He is also a collector and because they are official distributors for the Casa de Moneda de Mexico, he is in a position to request from the Bank of Mexico to confirm the mintage – he is not questioning it – he is asking them to confirm it – it is clear that he only wants to please us and himself (being a collector).
I am really not sure what else you want to know – as you say, you may be beating a dead horse here.
@ Schalk,
No, Im not reading too much into this…you made several statements such as “it’s possibe”..etc…yes I realize we can all speculate.
All I am asking for is a simple exclamation…is that too much to ask?
A Schalk, you ask what ulse do I want to know?..well your assumptions are not a valid answer, just your opinion. As I said, I’d like to know:
So my questions are:
1. Did all the COA’s you received from Mexico come without a number?
2. Did some of the COA’s you received from Mexico have numbers and others did not?
3. If all the COA’s PA received were blank, were you provided a range
of numbers for those COA’s to stamp a number on?
4. What happens when someone sends in a COA without a number and
you send one back with a number? Where does the numbered COA come from?
Is that too much to ask?…I don’t think so!
William,
Thanks for the info. And for the record I’m a new customer because of this blog.
One last comment…it’s late, at least for me as I’ve had a long day.
The issues I’ve brought up are not worth debating…when I see some of the real issues going on…like the Colorado shootings…that is where our real thoughts and concerns should be focused!
Sometimes we loose perspective of what’s really important…and I for one apologize for being guilty of that.
Let’s focus on what’s really important!
the only good thing about this set is the number—- “1500″! and, that’s it!
Samuel says:
July 26, 2012 at 11:12 am
the only good thing about this set is the number—- “1500″! and, that’s it!
…..yeah…I’m wondering why there is not 230 comments on this set?? …and it is STILL available?? …The Libertab is gorgeous and low mintage!!….where is all the fuss on this coin?? ….any body know????
jeff72, i remember u bought some of those apmex sets. no many people collect this coin. they can have a better capsule and box. what we buy here is the limited edition box, not the coin and CoA.
Samuel says:
July 27, 2012 at 10:18 am
jeff72, i remember u bought some of those apmex sets. no many people collect this coin. they can have a better capsule and box. what we buy here is the limited edition box, not the coin and CoA.
…you are right…thus why I have held off buying this 30th set….
At least the US Mint makes their anniversary coins unique …they just mint a million of them…..facetiously speaking of course
Got my new COA today. Looks just fine.
Someone on e-Bay is selling the sets with unnumbered COA’s as a mint error at a small premium to regular sets!
http://www.newyorkmint.com just listed this set for $199.
Hi guys,
I just want to share this video about this set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG4MnuZhNLU
Best Regards
youtube.com/user/Silvercoinsshow
Any word on final mintage numbers for 2011? Also, what is the estimate for the number of 1oz silver proofs Libertads are they expected to make this year?